Hate-Reading
with Matios Berhe
Behavior Bites Podcast - Ep65June 18, 2025When you hate something, do you push it away or try to learn more about it?
Have you ever been called difficult because you disagree or question feedback?
During today’s meal— I speak with a behavior analyst about his begrudging start to ABA, hate-reading authors he disagrees with, not chasing likes on social media, and you also get to hear us get really mad about substituting parsley for cilantro in pico de gallo.
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Amuse-Bouche
Why are you passionate about “the beauty of domain C in the BACB task list”?
Appetizer
How did you get into Behavior Analysis?
Palate Cleanser
Describe your perfect day. What are you doing, and most importantly what are you eating?
Entree
If there were no barriers, what would be your dream project?
What’s an “insult” you’ve received that you’re proud of?
Dessert
Your favorite thing about what you do?
Excerpts from the Episode
(*Paraphrased highlights)-
I was talking about the operational definition, measuring efficacy. I think that section is what allows us to use ABA in different contexts.
I know there's a lot of talk about staying within our scope, but let's just say I'm working with my son at baseball. I'm not crossing any ethical boundaries by deciding to create something systematic to teach my son certain baseball skills.
That's where I would go, getting the operational definitions, figuring out how I'm going to be measuring this thing, testing whether what we're teaching is effective or not, and trying to come up with the kinds of measures that would show something like that. Then focusing on generalization more than graphing.
I really feel, especially when a lot of our colleagues are talking about, "We can apply this in different places," I think that is the first step to doing it.
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I love to hate-read, first and foremost. If I come across someone whose ideas I'm staunchly opposed to, like I felt when I started reading Skinner, I'm going to read them more. It’s important for me to get to the bottom of what they're saying.
When I was working in a mid-tier position, there were some BCBAs that I just didn't see eye to eye with. I almost developed this reputation of not being open to feedback. I loved it because what ended up happening is that people that really did know me, actually know I'm completely open to feedback— but I have no problem telling someone that they're wrong or pushing back if I'm told, "change this."
I would say “no” because their rationale would be incorrect. Then trying to explain to someone how wrong they are, I thought would be a good thing, and it wasn't. It's not that I'm not open to feedback. It's just that I think feedback has to be honest, and when people are wrong, they're just wrong. To their credit, I am hardheaded, but I listen. I'm just stubborn, that's all.
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I think we all thrive in designing and working on something that is successful. That was why I started to believe the things I believe now, even though I came into the field super skeptical.
That aside, I really enjoy working with people. My role has changed over the last year or two, but I work with a lot of clinical supervisors and a lot of oversight. It's dope because they're all in different points of their programs. Some people are closer to my age. Some people are like half my age, which is wild.
It's like my learning keeps ratcheting up, and it's coming from meeting people who are just as interested in research, just as interested in philosophy, just as interested in chasing something down to its pure essential parts, or the people who are looking at things more holistically; everything is interconnected. I speak disparagingly and I'll call it a bunch of woo, but like, they're not wrong. So I appreciate the opportunity to be around people like that and hear all kinds of ideas.
ABOUT Matios
Matios Berhe, M.S., BCBA
Raised in Chula Vista, California. Worked in marketing, first exposure to behavior science. Started working with ABA in group home settings (no formal training, just strategies). Worked in functional skills classrooms at charter schools under direction of a BCBA and introduced to the Cooper book. Transitioned to in-home. Currently working in home, clinic and telehealth settings.
CONNECT with Matios
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