Fluidity in Practice
with Ann-Marie Donovan
Behavior Bites Podcast - Ep51October 23, 2024Do you tend to stick to the black & white rules, or dive into the greyscale?
How often do you explore the cultural differences and similarities at work?
During today’s meal— I speak with a behavior analyst about her journey to ABA, which brought her all over the world. We also discuss being flexible, leaning into the gray areas, local traditions, and soup!
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Amuse-Bouche
How did you used to celebrate Samhain in Ireland?
Appetizer
How did you get into Behavior Analysis?
What have been your biggest challenges practicing ABA abroad?
Palate Cleanser
Describe your favorite cozy, comfort dish
Entree
Tell us about working in the gray areas of Ethics
What have been your victories in providing mentorship?
Dessert
How do you practice self-care and find that work/life balance?
Excerpts from the Episode
(*Paraphrased highlights)-
***Samhain (Sow-wen) is the Gaelic festival marking the end of the harvest season and the beginning of winter. It is considered the root of Halloween.
It's my favorite time of the year. We as kids used to go to my grandmother's house, and I was one of 26 cousins. We would dress up as pucas, which are like ghosts and goblins and things like that.
A lot of apples were involved. There's a game we used to play that was called Snap Apple. It's on a string and you have to take a bite out of it.
Another game that I've introduced to my kids is we pile up flour in a little dome shape and put a grape on top. You have to cut a piece of the flour, and if the grape falls, you have to stick your face in the flour.
We would also have a bonfire to ward off evil spirits.
The other thing we used to do, which I find really funny now as an adult, is the jack-o'-lanterns that you guys have over here— so we would do that in Ireland, but we didn't have pumpkins. We had turnips. If you ever carved a turnip and didn't lose a finger or two, it was pretty exciting!
I have vivid memories of my dad taking every tool out of his shed to try and chisel a turnip into some sort of a recognisable, foolish face figure type thing that would smell pretty interesting after a couple of days on our front doorstep.
There are a lot of traditions that we still have today that come from the Festival of Samhain. When religion came into Ireland, there was a co-opting between religious practices and pagan practices that came together. So a lot of the traditions that we still celebrate today are a combination of the two.
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I work with students who are pursuing their BCBA credential, and I've noticed that a lot of them are very rule-governed when it comes to ethics. That's to be expected when you have a limited exposure to different things.
I'm seeing more and more, and from talking to behavior analysts in different parts of the world, a lot of times we have situations that maybe someone deems it as an ethical issue, but it's not necessarily an ethical issue. It's more something that's a yucky situation or it's something that’s uncomfortable, or they dislike.
Ethics is a fluid situation. It’s not, I'm an ethical behavior analyst or I'm not an ethical behavior analyst. It's something that's an active process that we should be engaging with on a daily basis.
I think it's important that we're reflecting or analyzing who is the vulnerable person. How are they being affected? Are they impacted in a way that is detrimental to their health and well-being? If they are, then yes, we need to make an ethics report or whatever the case may be.
Is this something that I just dislike, or is it something that I am not aware of? Maybe I don't have the skill set to ascertain if that's appropriate or not because in different cultures certain things are accepted.
Like in Ireland, a lot of times you walk into someone's house and you get a cup of tea. It's just part and parcel of the culture. If I walked into that house and was like, oh no, I can't take a cup of tea because that's against my ethics code. You're not fostering a good working relationship with that family because they're like, who does she think she is coming into our house and not even taking a cup of tea?
It's the same in the Middle East with very similar cultures. They share dates, they share juices, and it's offensive and rude at times to not accept those things.
I get it. The reason the ethics code is there is because somebody somewhere has violated something and that's what we have to have, but I think teaching people to be more reflective and better analyze what's going on in a situation is going to do us all much better as a field.
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A lot of times new BCBAs are getting 30 cases and they've no room to argue with that because they're like, I'm brand new to the system and I want the job, and I don't want to be fired, or I want to serve people.
I love teaching mentees that they can advocate for themselves. They can communicate what their capacity is, and I'm teaching them how to use the data to support that.
When they talk to their boss they can say, "My capacity is 8 to 10 cases right now based on how many times I've been able to observe my clients, and how many times I've been able to observe and coach my RBTs."
Using the data to support them to advocate for themselves have been huge wins, because I think a lot of times our newer professionals are stuck in positions that they feel like they have no agency over.
For a couple of reasons— financially, your student loans are due, your rent is due, your car payments, and maybe there's not a lot of options for you financially with regards to moving around. Also, people play on other’s emotions like, "If you don't do it, who's going to do it? These kids need you."
I think that's really unfair, obviously, and I think that's emotional blackmailing of our newer candidates. We need to teach them to advocate for their own needs because their mental health and wellbeing is not going to suffice if they continue like that. This can lead to engaging in practices that are not ethical, not providing effective treatment, all those things.
ABOUT Ann-Marie
Ann-Marie Donovan, M.Sc., BCBA, LBA, IBAO
Ann-Marie’s journey began in 2004 at a special needs summer camp in New Hampshire, where she discovered the joy and responsibility of working with individuals with additional needs. The camp director’s question, “How do you know your camper had the best time of their year?” sparked her passion for making a positive impact and the importance of fun.
After that initial summer she returned to Ireland and became a tutor in an ABA pilot school. She was back and forth between the US and Ireland for several years. She spent her time juggling roles in, in-home ABA programs, hospitals, and schools and the camp that started her career all while completing her master’s degree from Simmons College in Boston. In 2009, she proudly added a Master of Science in Behavior Analysis and a BCBA certification to her achievements.
Her adventure continued as the Director of an ABA pilot school in Ireland, then her adventures took her to Bahrain as the Director of an ABA clinic. It was there she met her husband, an Alabama native with the United States Coast Guard. They returned to the US in 2017, and Ann-Marie has been learning and leading as best she can since that time.
Her hardest and most rewarding role to date is being Mom to twin girls (7) and an almost 5-year-old boy who have completely reshaped Ann-Marie’s perspective on many things, including how she practices.
Ann-Marie’s journey is all about connection and mentorship. She believes that the secret sauce to meaningful progress is building strong relationships. With a blend of evidence-based practices and a sprinkle of fun, she attempts to create an environment where progress is celebrated, mistakes are embraced as learning opportunities, relationships flourish, and learning never stops.
CONNECT with Ann-Marie
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